British Ambassador: There is an unprecedented package of sanctions in place - from what I can see, Georgia is playing its part in upholding that

Ukraine is receiving aid from many states around the world against the background of the Russian invasion. One of the leading countries in this regard is the United Kingdom, as London has been showing great support and solidarity with Kyiv throughout this time. What conditioned the UK's more sizeable aid to Ukraine compared to other influential European powers? In the light of the ongoing conflict in Ukraine, does British intelligence have any information about provocations planned by Russia in Georgia, or Moscow's possible plans intending to invade the country again? Similar to Ukraine, does the UK think the Georgian government is helping Russia to avoid sanctions? And what is London's reaction to the so-called referendum on the unification of Russia-occupied "South Ossetia" with Russia? - British Ambassador to Georgia, Mark Clayton, discussed these and other issues in an exclusive interview with InterPressNews.

Mark Clayton, British Ambassador to Georgia, thank you very much indeed for speaking to us! Let me start our interview with a question regarding the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine. We see that the UK is showing huge support and solidarity toward a war-torn country. And we also see that your country has shown that you are courageous and you have the real determination to deter Russia and help Ukraine. Just a couple of days ago, Prime Minister Boris Johnson became the first world leader to address the Ukrainian Parliament since the beginning of the conflict. Besides, the British PM is the first G7 leader to visit Kyiv after the war broke out. The Kremlin even labeled your Prime Minister as ‘the most active anti-Russian leader’. In short, your country is expressing much bigger support towards Ukraine compared to other European powers. So my question is what led the UK to be such a staunch supporter of Ukraine in comparison with other European powers?

I think the people who are showing courage and determination, first and foremost are the Ukrainian people. I absolutely stand in awe and pay tribute to their courage, their bravery, and their sacrifice in the face of a totally unprovoked attack from Russia. That's a really important thing to say. I think the second thing that I would say is I'm always acutely aware of how raw the conflict in Ukraine is for Georgia because of Georgia's own experience. But I think I'm always aware of how real this feels to everyone here given what happened in Georgia in 2008. My Prime Minister is really clear. We stand absolutely against Russia's unprovoked attack, which was in complete violation of the United Nations charter. And we think it's our duty to support Ukraine in its fight against aggression. My Prime Minister was really clear in the Rada. This is not just about Ukraine. This is about supporting a free, sovereign, democratic country to stand up for its choice against unprovoked aggression. I think it's really important. I am proud of what the UK has done.

The United Kingdom has stepped up. We are delivering a really broad package of support to Ukraine. And as part of that, we are imposing costs on Russia. But we are by no means doing this alone. There is no competition here. We are doing this in absolute solidarity and very close coordination with our G7 partners, our European partners, allies, and the rest of NATO.

The UK as well as Russia, is a permanent member of the UN Security Council. Moscow is grossly violating international law and abusing its veto power to somehow avoid punishment from the international community. Should we expect that your government will support suspending Russia or even expelling it from the UN Security Council? Is it possible?

I think we have been around this before and I suppose there are no mechanisms whereby you can suspend or revoke someone's membership in the Security Council. So I think going down that route is a bit of a red herring. I believe it's very clear and as my Foreign Secretary said in a speech she gave just last week, It's very clear that really the post-cold war architecture has failed us and has proven the expectations that we had after the end of the cold war for a new period of peace, stability, prosperity for everyone. Those expectations have not yet been delivered. So she has called for a very new approach. What is clear, despite the activity or the lack of activity in the United Nations Security Council, I think the strength and depth of the international community’s abhorrence of what Russia has done are clear beyond compare. In successive United Nations General Assembly resolutions, over 140 States have voted for Ukraine and against Russia. I don't think there's a better signal of the strength and depth of the international community's revulsion of this attack. What is also clear and what I welcome of course is that Georgia has played a full part in that and I absolutely look forward to Georgia continuing to support the international and really robust international response against Russia's aggression in the coming months.

The UK’s Ministry of Defence is quite active in its daily intelligence updates regarding Ukraine. I wonder if your intelligence services have any information over some Russian provocations planned in Georgia or plans that Russia is going to re-invade this country.

I'm not going to get into the details or not of what any intelligence there is. What I would say is I think everyone appreciates that Georgia is exposed to Russian pressure. There's no better example than the fact that you have thousands of Russian troops illegally on Georgian territory. That is not something we accept. It's not something the international community accepts the UK has been absolutely rock solid and consistent since Georgia reestablished its independence. We've been rock solid in our support for Georgia's sovereignty and territorial integrity. Although Georgia is exposed and has Russian troops on its territory, I've seen no indications of any imminent threat. The European Union monitoring mission does an extremely good job of monitoring the situation in and around the administrative boundary lines and identifying anything either, although you'd have to speak to them.

Despite that, it's clear that Russia does continue to exert pressure and threaten Georgia. We've seen that through a range of cyber-attacks over recent years, through disinformation, through the constant authorization, through the illegal detention of Georgian citizens along the administrative boundary lines. The UK works with Georgia to combat and counter all of that, alongside, of course, our other partners and allies.

Currently, there are quite strained relations between Georgia and Ukraine. The Ukrainian Ambassador is recalled from Georgia by President Zelensky, who later said that he does not understand the position of the Georgian government regarding the ongoing invasion. Earlier in April, Ukraine’s Defence Ministry Intelligence alleged that Russia was establishing a channel for smuggling through the Georgian territory and political leadership of Georgia instructed their security services not to interfere with the activities of Russian smugglers. And just now, new allegations have emerged from the Ukrainian Intelligence Service of the MoD about alleged talks between Russia and Georgia over the re-export of Russian goods to third countries. Those accusations are strongly denied by the Georgian authorities and they demand evidence from the Ukrainian side. Does the UK have similar information like Ukraine that the Georgian government helps Russia to evade sanctions?

No, I haven't. It's a straightforward answer. Of course, what the UK, along with G7, European Union, NATO allies, and other partners, is trying to do is impose the maximum cost on Russia and deprive Putin's military of the sources of funds that they need to prosecute this illegal war. Since the start of the conflict, the UK has frozen over £900 million of assets from Russian banks. We've worked with others to cut them out of the international banking system SWIFT. We've frozen over 260,000,000 billion of foreign currency reserves from Russia. So alongside that, we've sanctioned over 1600 individuals and limited trade in particular sectors with Russia, all of which are designed to impose a cost for that unprovoked invasion and to deprive funds of Putin's war machine. Georgia is playing its part in this package, so I've seen press reports and speculation about it, but I would also refer to the Finance Minister's statement. From what I have seen, Georgia's Central Bank is doing everything it can to ensure that Georgia cannot be used as a place where financial sanctions can be avoided. We've seen really rapid action taken. For example, on VTB Bank in space of a couple of days, it was closed down in line with the sanctions. Bank of Georgia and TBC Bank are listed on the London Stock Exchange. They are doing everything they can to ensure that the financial sanctions are in place. And finally, I know that when it comes to limits on trade in goods and sanctioned goods, I know that the Ministry of Finance, together with the Ministry of Economy and your custom service are working to ensure that there is no leakage and that's what the Minister of Finance said. So I guess my response is that there is an unprecedented package of sanctions in place and the UK will continue together with our allies and partners to impose unprecedented costs on Putin for this war. From what I can see, Georgia is playing its part in upholding that. And of course, our hope is that the Georgian government will continue to do everything it can to ensure that Georgia does not become a place for sanctions, avoidance, or evasion.

Before the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the UK, Poland and Ukraine formed a new trilateral alliance. Some Georgian politicians expressed their interest for Georgia to be seen among those countries in this newly-established alliance. Does this alliance have a so-called open door policy? Can Georgia be invited to this alliance? Is it under discussion?

There's been a lot of interest in that here in Georgia. It's been labeled a number of different things as well. What we are calling it is an agreement on security cooperation. In many respects, it is a formalization, if you like, of the existing really strong defense and security cooperation that the UK enjoyed both with Poland and Ukraine. Since the talk of that agreement was out there, actually the invasion has happened and we're now into an entirely different phase of cooperation. So I think the Georgian government has explored the shape of that agreement with us through your Embassy in London. I think now when it comes to Ukraine, we are in a different phase. The totality of the UK and other allies’ efforts is on supporting Ukraine. Recently, my Prime Minister announced another package of £300 million worth of military assistance to Ukraine that takes the total of our assistance to over £750,000,000. I think we will come back to that agreement in due course, but at the moment it is not. I think it's been overtaken in some respects.

Anatoly Bibilov, the de facto leader of Georgia’s Russia-backed breakaway region of "South Ossetia", said that the occupied territory is looking to hold a referendum on joining Russia, though there is no specific date known yet. What is the reaction of the UK regarding this possible referendum?

We are monitoring the situation very closely. It's hard for me to see how any referendum held in South Ossetia in the near future could have any legitimacy at all. It is not supported by the Georgian government. We don't recognize the independence of South Ossetia or indeed Abkhazia. As I've said before, the UK's position is really clear. We support Georgia's territorial integrity and sovereignty, and that includes full control over these territories.

And if there is any referendum held in the coming future in breakaway "South Ossetia" on joining Russia, should we expect sanctions from the UK against Russian Federation because of this illegal vote?

I think the breadth and depth of our sanctions are such that Russia, as I said, Russia is already under unprecedented sanctions. We'd have to look at the exact situation, time, and the nature of that. But at this moment, I find it hard to see how any referendum held in South Ossetia would have any credibility at all.

On April 27th Georgia and the UK marked the 30th anniversary of their diplomatic relations. What are the accomplishments in bilateral relations over these past 30 years? Generally speaking, how would you assess the cooperation between the countries in terms of political, economic, cultural, and military matters?

So I genuinely think and I said this when I met Foreign Minister Darchiashvili just the other day, I honestly think relations have never been better. They are strong, they are deep, and they are in any number of different fields. So I think the security and defense relationship is particularly strong. It's delivered on different levels. We work extremely closely with the Georgian defense forces on UK bilateral lines, but we're also among the leading partners of Georgia and NATO. We were instrumental in pushing through the substantial Georgia NATO package. We've got British officers working under SNGP NATO structures to really support Georgia's membership in NATO and its interoperability. But it's not just about the defense and security. I think it's really important. It's not just the defense and uniformed military work we do with Georgia to counter disinformation, to beef up Georgia's cyber-security. They're all really important parts of that package, and it is a big chunk of our relationship, but it is by no means all of it. So we work quite intensively with civil society and the Georgian government on reconciliation with Abkhazia and South Ossetia on conflict resolution. We have quite an extensive relationship across the political spectrum on Georgia's continued political and democratic development. Big programs in Parliament are part of that. I'm really proud of the work that we do both on education and culture, where the British Council is absolutely instrumental in working with the Ministry of Education on driving up standards of English language learning and etc. But also under that basket our trade and economic relationship as well, which continues to grow. Despite COVID, it's gone up by 15% to 20% £140,000,000 of trade. It's in a healthy state.

Mark Clayton, British Ambassador to Georgia, it’s been amazing talking to you. Thank you so much for your time.

Tornike Kakalashvili

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