Vakhtang Dzabiradze: these endless political tit-for-tats between different branches of our Government cannot bring anything good to them; however, they more play in the hands of the President than those of the executive Government
--An interview with ex-Premier Bidzina Ivanishvili brought all problems within the Georgian Dream Coalition to the surface and made it clear that Georgia is not ready for semi-parliamentary and semi-presidential system. Thanks to this interview, we have also found out that the President has not been involved in the communication with the Premier and the parliament… If we remember Mr. Ivanishvili’s announcement as per which the team is in a state of confusion, how would you evaluate the present situation within the Georgian Dream Coalition?
-- Bidzina Ivanishvili’s interview, in fact, gave us the bare bones and brought all problems within the coalition as well as between the President and the Premier to the surface. The present developments in the country are in fact the reflection of the ongoing processes within the Georgian Dream.
The Georgian Dream has held the elections– first parliamentary than the presidential elections; however, this cycle of elections has already ended and now the preparatory work for the elections of 2016 are underway. This has spurred the Georgian Dream leaders to start vying for superpowers. Nothing new is happening in Georgia today though – similar processes have taken place in the “Public Union” as well as in the “National Movement.” Similar processes have occurred in the National Movement today. Now the Georgian Dream leaders are fighting to assert dominance and this automatically means that reshufflings will take place within the team…
-Having met with the President, Zakaria Kutsnashvili started assuring us that creating a left-wing party does not fall within Mr. Margvelashvili’s plans. From his part, Mr. Margvelashvili expressed readiness to meet with the parliamentary majority and the deputies of Atchara. We have not yet pinned down the date when the President will meet with the parliamentary majority; however, we have left with the impression that the leading team has already done everything in its power to discredit the President’s authority; and now it’s a bit difficult to imagine how they will cooperate with each other in the future. To cut it short, what do you think we are faced with a systemic problem or the Government is finding it difficult to rule the country?
-- We really face a kind of systematic problem that has surfaced due to the shortfalls existed in our constitution. However, I cannot really say that the Government has found it cumbersome to rule the country. Some factors are worth taking into account though. A really acute question is posed to us today – everyone wants to know which of the institutes will become a true center of power – the President’s or the Premier’s. It’s without question that legally and juridical a true center of power is the Government. However, now it’s more important which of the institutes will become a more influential political center, which of them will acquire political influence. Despite this, the existing systemic problem cannot create any major problem for the Government. However, if this confrontation between the President and the PM lasts long than political problems will undoubtedly surface.
The President made it clear that he does not intend to form a left-wing party. However, this does not clearly imply that the Presidents institute will not be a hub of radically different opinions within the Georgian Dream party.
Bidzina Ivanishvili has given a hint regarding the President’s entourage. I don’t have a desire to expand on this issue; however, everyone knows that the people who enter the politics are avid for power and influence; likewise, do they long to show their abilities. Once again I repeat that I cannot see any legal or judicial problems within the Government which has all levers to realize its programs as well as its intentions. The President can put its decisions on hold for a certain period of time but it cannot have any major effect on the ongoing processes.
As for the political center… The President can really mobilize the public opinion… A rift has been incited between the President and the Government; however, despite this Mr. Margvelashvili’s still enjoys sympathy from the public… And this means that having been disappointed by the Georgian Dream Coalition, the public is now tilting towards the President. And today everything is in the hands of the executive Government – if it does nothing, this process may easily continue in the future.
-- We have been left with an impression that Ivanaishvili could not forgive Margvelashvili his disobedience as well as his move to settle in Saakashvili’s residence. Some people think that now the President is being punished precisely due his disobedience and he will soon be forced to move to the Atoneli residence. Do you agree with this allegation?
- When this topic was thrown into the mix, I strongly held that the President must have resided in the Avvlabari residence. All allegations saying that this residence is a symbol of Saakashcvili’s corrupt rule or abode of demons are over the top; all these talks are actually ridiculous.
Astronomical financial resources were once spent to build this residence and it must have obviously continued functioning. I have never been showed into this building but as Mr. Ivanishvili claims, it covers a large area, and thus, both, the Presidents Administration and the Foreign Ministry, can easily be placed there. President’s residence should not really be the topic of hot debates and heated discussions.
Now these people allege that the President must leave the Avlabari residence and move to Atoneli. In my opinion, the President simply does not want to discredit his institute by moving from one residence to another. He thinks that this step will insult him. And I think he is right on this point; he must stay within the Avlabari Residence and Bidzina Ivanishvili as well as the Government must inure themselves to this fact.
When the country has a President who has some rights, the Government must definitely keep in touch with him; however, if, as they say, the President himself refuses to communicate with them, than they must stop discussing this issue behind the scenes; it must undoubtedly be discussed publicly… Incontrovertible is the fact that the President and the Government must cooperate with each other. These endless political tit-for-tats between different branches of the Government do not bring anything good to either of them – however, they more play in the hands of the President than those of the executive Government.
-- Ivanishvilis’ move to decide whether or not the President would have departed for the US made it clear that the state institutes are faced with a number of problems … It is true that if we believe the former PM, he does not meddle in the state affairs; however, his interview has left us with an impression that he is being kept in the loop on ongoing processes and precisely he is a key decision-maker in Georgia. Do you share this position?
-If we go deeper into details and if we look over Mr. Ivanishvili’s interview, we will easily deduce that he is on top the situation and knows everything. And it’s obviously without question that Ivanishvili has an overarching influence on the public as well as the political figures.
In my mind, Ivanishvili himself must express a desire to distance himself from the Government and the leading team. I think that Ivanishvili must not have involved himself in a confrontation with President Margvelashvili by judging who is right and who is wrong. The President can have gotten down Mr. Ivanishvili but … he is obliged to act according to the country’s interests. He must play a role of a mediator and not a judge. By posing as a judge, he will never manage to rectify the situation in the country.
From my point of view, it would be better for us if Ivanishvili distanced himself from the Government. By becoming a public figure, he would free the leading party from his far-reaching influence. All this would have enabled us to evade the repercussions which have repeatedly occurred in our political life and which have brought us only negative consequences.
Some positive changes have really been brought about in our life since the power has changed hands here. The court has become an independent body, media has been reprieved from pressure; however, all this is not stable as it is depended on concrete people and not on the state arrangement. Against this background, each and every statement from such an influential person as Ivanishvili can easily rock the Government and deteriorate relations between its members and the President.
- As expert Demur Giorgkhelidze alleges, an attempt to mold Georgia as a parliamentary republic has ended in failure. In his words, the formation of the pseudo-parliamentary republic was an attempt to camouflage their irresponsibility. Do you agree with an allegation saying that their decision to create a parliamentary republic was impetuous and this attempt has ended in failure?
-- Definitely not. I obviously don’t agree with this allegation. This model was first introduced by ex-President Saakashvili. We have a long memory of what presidential system has brought to us. We have been a presidential republic for 22 long years. That is the reason why now all their efforts must be directed to refine this model. It’s an irrefutable fact that we will never be able to create a good political system under the presidential government.
If it comes to irresponsibility, I must say that the political groups are more irresponsible under the presidential government. That is why we must try to tackle our problems under the parliamentary system. If we are strongly determined to boost democracy, we must perfect a parliamentary system and analyze all ills of our political spectrum as well as politics.
-- Ivanishvili appeared before public when reports regarding the presumable formation of some groups supporting Saakashvili were disseminated through our public. In your opinion, can these two happenstances be interconnected?
--- The ex-President has never been passive; thus, nothing is new regarding this fact. Having been removed from his post, he has been forced to take less active steps; however, he has never been a passive figure.
As for the ex-Premier, before disengaging from politics, he made it clear that he plans to move to the public sector and take active steps there. It seems that time for this has come; however, Mr. Ivanishvili gives long interviews rather rarely. Time will tell us what kind of steps he will take in the future… The Georgian Dream has come into power, the National Movement has moved to the opposition; now both these powers are getting ready for the presidential elections of 2016.
All this obscurity that surrounds this immensely acute issue will be cleared up by 2015, and we will figure out how these two powers are going to continue their political combats. I don’t also rule out that a necessity of calling for snap elections may also emerge.
Koba Bendeliani
InterPressews
