Russia’s threats are more than mere danger. In this way, Russia signals to us that it is preparing to move against our country – Nodar Sarjveladze

InterPressNews discussed acute issues of Georgia’s internal and external policy with psychologist, Nodar Sarjveladze.

- Last week two groups whose political views are poles apart were reportedly going to counter each other in the street. If not for the coordinated measures by the police, they would have undoubtedly had a physical altercation. Georgians spent 20 years attempting to solve everything, including political issues, with fists rather than negotiations. In light of this fact can we conclude that our political culture and ideology is still at its nadir? Have we failed to learn something through experience? How would you evaluate their attempt to counter each other on Pekini Street?

- Over the years, our public has been immensely segregated… And this segregation, as a rule, reaches its culminating point when Powers change hand in Georgia, and when newly appointed authorities try to do away with their predecessors. Shevardnaze’s Government, for instance, was totally oriented on the persecution of Gamsakhurdia’s adherents and staunch supports; we face a similar situation today. And the initial stage of this horrible segregation and the acts aiming to liquidate political adversaries is an unrestrained display of aggression expressed through defamation, derogatory remarks and verbal altercation. A social network, for example, that is fraught with such disgraceful slurs and derogatory remarks is a clear testimony to the aforementioned. Unfortunately, our public is totally oriented on bullying – without hesitation, they verbally abuse their opponents without even thinking about the consequences of their actions. Allegations are made there that the National Movement must cease to exist. And this is obviously not a mere criticism any more; this is a strong desire to eliminate an opponent. Through experience, we know perfectly well that this verbal aggression, as a rule, morphs into brawls and a physical altercation.

The current terrible goings-on clearly show that not only our political culture is on a low level of development but also culture in general… we are unable to communicate with each other as settled and civilized people generally do. And most importantly, all this happens when not only political powers are involved in a political conflict but also the leading force is “afflicted with the same terrible ailment” I mean the conflict between the executive and legislative branches of our Government. In this process media is naturally involved and journalists as a rule, prepare the public for a pending scandal. Our journalists cover scandalous issues or conflicts with ardent enthusiasm, while to my surprise they are absolutely reluctant to spread ordinary or good news. This, by all odds results in heightening the tensions and escalating the situation. In my opinion, this is a precondition of civil conflicts an immensely good example is the Pekini Street incident.

- Can all this be hindering the public to build up a consensus regarding the key issues of the country? The actual fact is that some marginalized but immensely active forces are against the country’s pro - western foreign vector and they don’t even try to hide this. Endless talks regarding the necessity to right the wrongs and the statements about their attempt to liquidate their opponents are only tools to fight against political rivals. Can all these altercations, verbal or physical, have only one goal – to mobilize the public opinion and implement “the only right” political view in the country?

- I liked the context of your question. The process aims to help one single party in monopolizing power. I think that in our country the only driving force is the lust for power and not an ardent enthusiasm to adopt more effective tools to run the country better.

When the ongoing processes as well as this or that political power is moved by a strong desire to monopolize the power, each and every political rival placing obstacles on their path to the objective is viewed as an arch enemy. Thus, an image of an enemy from a political opponent is created instantly. And a strong desire to devastate an adversary comes from business and is embedded in politics. As you know, the core maxim of business is: you must “strangle” and pulverize your rival whatever it takes. Thus, as I have mentioned, the aforementioned principle is taken from business and is embedded in politics. An image of an “internal foe” has already been created in our country and this is an image of the National Movement. An opponent is no longer viewed as a rival here. Today an opponent in our country is viewed as a bloodthirsty enemy. Thus, if the parties want to improve the existing situation, they must change their belligerent stance and they must view one another as mere rivals and not enemies. This is not an easy task to fulfill though.

- In the present state of affairs when the country is going through an extremely bad patch and when our western partners advice us to go through this extremely dangerous period as carefully as possible, the physical altercations in the streets that can lay a foundation for outrageous civil conflict must not fall in the country’s interests. As for the left-wing party, its representatives claim that the Government stands behind “Free Generation”. It’s also the fact that the representatives of the “Free Zone” do enjoy the Nationals’ backing. Can against this backdrop we conclude that willingly or unwillingly, both parties are pursuing Russia’s interests?

- In my mind, the ongoing processes are controllable. All this is not happening in Georgia by accident. The people don’t clash with one another without having a reason for doing so. The authorities don’t issue direct orders. However, it’s the fact that the powers that be do wield influence on their adherents. The parties themselves escalate the situation. Hence, the situation is not impossible to control.

The conflict is fueled by both parties and both try to turn the tide and benefit from the situation. Only they and no one else know what kind of profit they plan to gain from these endless conflicts. However, in similar conflicts neither of these parties stands a chance to win advantage over the opponent. A third party is more likely to benefit from this situation than they do. And in this particular case, it’s not difficult to guess that this third party is Russia. Thus, willingly or unwillingly they are rendering a service to Russia. I don’t claim that they are Russia’s agents but …

- Deputy Davit Darchiashvili who has returned from the U.S. and who has held a meeting with our ex-President there declared that Mr. Saakashvili is getting ready to hold protest events... We all know that the demonstrations and protest events are an alienable part of our political life. In the democratic world, you are obviously entitled to protest against things you don’t like. The public must decide the rest. It’s difficult to imagine that the political groups that have poured on to the streets and have taken active steps there don’t understand that by trying to spark these civil conflicts they are playing with fire and this game can turn out to be extremely dangerous. Whether this way or that, this dangerous game has already been launched. What can be its ultimate goal?

- It’s an extremely good question. A benefit from being active on this occasion is “zero” i.e. nothing. This conflict will give absolutely nothing to either of the parties. These parties are not involved in an ideological war. They simply want to crush one another. This is a no win game, neither of the parties will benefit from it and a party which will manage to claim a victory over its opponent will prove to be a defeated force in the end. As by devastating its rival, the “victorious” force will devastate itself too. To cut it short, similar ludicrous games will give nothing to both of the parties.

Striving for nothing is an ordinary thing for existentialism. As philosopher and Nobel Prize winner Jean-Paul Sartre, who refused a prize once declared some people really strive for nothing. Yearning for nothing is simply in their blood. In a nutshell, those who are involved in this conflict are striving for nothing.

- Whether this way or that, the actual fact is that political conflicts in the streets must not be playing into the hands of our authorities. In your mind, what can indicate Vice-Premier Kakha Kaladze’s announcement saying that one day the “Free Zone” activists can physically assault the Nationals themselves and then pass the buck to the Government? Does the Premier’s statement give us a foundation to deduce that the political groups in Georgia will stop at nothing on earth to devastate one another? Or can we think that Mr. Kaladze’s announcement was simply of a preventive nature?

- Kakha Kaladze’s statement in this particular case cannot really be defined as preventive. It only even more aggravates the situation by playing into the hands of those who aim to throw the country into disarray. The actual fact is that the allegation saying that the political clashes between our people in the streets must not suit the Government needs a major rethink. On the contrary, I think that thanks to the ongoing conflicts and physical altercations, the Government is maintaining an aggressive electorate involved in a life and death battle with the Nationals. And now the opposing parties are simply vying with each other for superpowers by trying to maintain as many adherents as possible. Thus, your allegation that the conflicts do not serve the Government’s interests must be reconsidered. It in fact does not really ring true. I think that actually the Government profits from this situation.

- As Minister of Culture Nika Rurua claims, the representatives of Russia’s special service rent flats in Tbilisi as well as in other cities of Georgia and “get acquainted with the locals”. As for the statements from Russia’s Foreign Ministry, they have been defined as threatening warnings. Mr. Karassin has taken the lid off their plans to build a railway in Transcaucasia. Many of us allege that Russia aims to get hold of Georgia’s economic leverages. In your opinion, how dangerous are the threats that are coming from Russia and what kinds of measures must the right as well as the left-wing parties adopt to fend off these threats?

- From my viewpoint, Russia’s threats are more than mere danger. In this way, Russia signals to us that it is preparing to move against our country. Russia is in fact entangled. It has placed these traps on its path by its own hand. Their intention to “strangle” Georgia, Ukraine and Moldova and instead of the Eurasian Union, help the “remnants of the empire” to emerge in the EU orbit contradicts with Putin’s plans. Similar plans serve as a trap for the Kremlin, and precisely within this trap it is now issuing threatening signals behind which stands its core message – permission to raid you and “strangle” you later. In this particular case, Russia aims to get hold of our economic leverages. However, its ultimate goal is to “strangle” Georgia anyway. It longs to do away with each and every country which is different and does not want to take sides with Russia.

The second part of your question is immensely good and rational. In my mind, the Government must set order and bring peace in the country. The public must form a common opinion in terms of our core values. The people must be capable of listening different opinions. Otherwise a country, the residents of which are always ready to face off, berate and physically abuse each other does stand a very strong chance of being gobbled up by an imperialistic whale one day.

Russia has always aimed to stir the situation in this or that country to make its victim beg for assistance. In this way, a pretext to militarily intervene in the country falls in the hands of Russia which instantly gets down to claiming that by doing this it wants to bring peace to this country. As for us, we might get over this impasse only if we manage to adopt a tolerant stance and develop normal and humane relations between one another.

- As Gia Kancheli, renowned famous Georgian composer in Belgium states, negative results brought by Saakashvili’s rule have overshadowed the positive consequences. Under the present Government, the “minuses” of their rule are also more palpable than “pluses.” The majority of experts claim that 2015 will be much worse for the country than 2013 or 2014. Do you share this position? And how will this affect the country?

- In my mind, the conflict in our country will heat up later and the situation will become more aggravated here. It will take us nine more years to free the country from the rubbish Saakashvili has gathered here after his 9-year rule. Against this background, a statement from Bidzina Ivanishvili that he will come into power, remain in power for a while and will rectify the situation here seems immensely naïve.

As for your question about what kind of an impact will the ongoing political processes have on the country. I think that over few more years, we will have to pass through an immensely rough patch with court trials and physical altercations. I cannot really “prescribe” a recipe for success to our Government but one thing is absolutely clear today -- the Government must take immensely measured steps and must rule the country extremely carefully. By spurring the public to take vengeance over their abusers and by declaring hasty amnesty, they will definitely fail to lead the country out of a dead-end critical situation.

Koba Bendeliani

InterPressNews