Vakhtang Dzabiradze: the next two years will be much more problematic and troublesome for our Government than the already passed two years

InterPressNews sat down with political expert and constitutionalist, Vakhtang Dzabiradze, to discuss acute issues of Georgia’s domestic and foreign policy.

-- Last week, President Margvelashvili vetoed the bill from the Parliament in relation to delaying adoption of the surveillance law. Despite the fact that the Premier supported the decision from the Parliament and MIA that was strongly determined to maintain the surveillance practice did not plan to yield its “key”, it can be said that the constitution began functioning. The Government has finally been forced to take the President’s advice into account. How would you evaluate this incident and what kind of an impact can it have on the ongoing political processes in the country?

-Last week, the Prime Minister issued two statements one of which is absolutely unacceptable to me and one I agree with. In one of the statements, the Prime Minister called upon the Government not to yield the key before April. While expanding on this issue, he released an extremely important statement as per which he did not place confidence in the Court … and when they talk so actively regarding a rift that has been incited between the President and the Prime Minister, they very often forget that today a core issue is not a rift that allegedly exists between the PM and the President but the fact they don’t trust the judiciary. Whether this way or that one thing is clear – the court must undoubtedly act as an independent body that will not obey the President or the Prime Minister which is why a move to grant the so-called key to our court is nothing more than one of the mechanisms of exerting control on it.

After the President’s veto, the Prime Minister openly proclaimed his position which I share completely. According to him, if we want to reside in the democratic environment, we must be able to calmly meet the President’s vetoes. In my mind, the President’s decision to veto the bill about the so-called key of access is auspicious for the country as well as our political system. The fact that Mr. Margvelashvili has vetoed the bill is nothing special and the Parliament is fully entitled to either agree with his decision or reject it. And we, the the Georgian people, must not over exaggerate similar incidents and must not deliberately kick up a fuss by constantly talking regarding some kind of confrontation between the President and the Prime Minister.

Soon everyone will clearly see that the President’s decision to veto the bill has not constricted the normal flow of our political life and precisely this is the reason why I consider the President’s decision right and rational. In the present state of play all three branches of the Government acted as if we have already built a democratic society and to tell the truth, I am immensely glad that they have acted in this way.

- An allegation saying that level of freedom has increased in Georgia after the parliamentary elections of 2012 is often issued by the members of our Government. We don’t argue about this but could you tell us to what may point the position from MIA which is dead set against yielding the so-called key? Can this indicate that MIA fulfills its responsibilities more easily by relaying on old and already tried methods or the government actually lacks the resources to change the methods of MIA to the core by gearing these methods to the European standards?

- By all odds, the Government fears that it may not prove able to assume control of the situation. We know perfectly well that in 2004-2013 MIA employed obsolete methods of 1936-37 while accomplishing its obligations. This makes me think that the Government really lacks resources which is why it failed to reshuffle the Ministry of internal Affairs soon enough. Due to all these problems, the police refused to yield the so-called key and stashed it away.

- The apprehension of the high officials of the Defense Ministry on the charge of being involved in some corruption schemes has triggered a massive backlash from the public. The Government can endlessly claim that the leading power has absolutely nothing against Mr. Alasania, who have close ties with the West and the leadership of the U.S., their move to dismiss him from the post of Vice-premier as well as other seemingly tenuous nuances make us smell a rat in the situation. The latest statements from the Republicans as well as the proposals to the Coalition are a clear testimony to this. In your opinion, is the apprehension of Alasania’s colleagues politically motivated and what is actually happening within the Coalition today?

- The situation has remained problematic after Power changed hands in Georgia. All political powers, including the Georgian Dream Coalition, are trying to deal with the present situation. It’s extremely difficult to define what is now happening in the Defense Ministry as even the lawyers have not completely reviewed the case materials thus far.

Judging from the events that unfolded in the Ministry of Agriculture in the past, the statement from Irakli Alasania as per which his plans to retake the post of the head of the party could have been alarming for some political circles in Georgia. In these words I do not really implicate the acting or former prime ministers. Generally, political threats are not made against the political upper crust, they are posed for their subordinates. These people are always trying to use the situation to their own advantage and expand their authority. And in the present state of affairs, I really do not rule out that some people may long to discredit Mr. Alasania since as a soon as he is removed from the post of Minister, other Ministers will also bow out from their posts and new vacancies will instantly be created.

As for the statement from the Republicans, by this statement they wanted to deliver a rather important message saying that the next two years will be much more problematic and troublesome for our Government than the already passed two years. If we go into details and carefully look over the statement by the Republicans, we will realize that they’ve urged the Government to involve them in the decision-making process as well as the elaboration of this or that issue. It has also been hinted that the Coalition Council must serve as a decision making body. In my opinion the processes leading to this are already underway within the body.

--Allegations have it that despite pro-western rhetoric, the clear-cut pro-western parties will be excommunicated from the Coalition. Do these allegations ring true?

- When the Coalition was created, Bidzina Ivanishvili brought “Republicans” and “Free Democrats” into the body for the sole purpose – he wanted them to propagate the pro-western ideology and shield the Coalition from the threats from the people who typecast Ivanishvili and his team to be the allies of Russia. In spite of the fact that I am on friendly terms with the Republicans, I cannot say that they and Alasania will prove able to help the Coalition in moving forward… This was a message to the West saying that Power can change hands in Georgia but the country’s foreign vector will always remain unchanged.

Today, the Nationals are accusing the government of completing a bargain with Russia. These parties may really be sidelined from the Coalition but I do not really think that this decision from the Government will in any way be connected to their desire to change the country’s political course. Once again I repeat that their dismissal will simply create new vacancies within the body which really has people who long to take these posts.

- Against this background, we can deduce that the Kremlin will keep taking active steps to fulfill its plans in relation to Sokhumi and Tskhinvali. In the present state of play, in what manner can official Tbilisi respond to the steps from Russia?

- Time has always worked for us up to a point. However, immensely deplorable is the fact that our Government has always worked against time and this has always yielded not so favorable repercussions for the country.

Today the situation in Georgia is really rather tough. Today our foreign policy deterring factors are more insubstantial for Russia than in the past. That is why today we must take extremely measured and heedful steps. And, most importantly, we must realize that we long to return Abkhazians and not regain Abkhazia. Currently the situation has radically changed and we are simply obliged to inure our foreign policy to the present Status Quo in Georgia.

We must make the Abkhazian people understand that we don’t plan to resolve the conflict through force. This will be an immensely good precondition to build a new Georgian state with our Abkhazian brothers.

- As per Russian political expert, Dmitry Oreshkin, the policy adopted by Russia in terms of Georgia is extremely pragmatic and cynical. As per him, the Kremlin will patiently wait for the time when Georgia is economically more reliant on Russia and its position in terms of Abkhazia and South Ossetia is milder. Only time will tell us whether or not the Russian political expert’s words are close to the truth; however, in your opinion, what kind of policy could Georgia have adopted with reference to Russia today?

--First of all, I will agree with the Russian expert’s words saying that Russia’s policy with regard to Georgia is immensely cynical. As for pragmatism, it’s a very nebulous term; however, I do not really think that Russia is pragmatic when it comes to Georgia. As for the expert’s words saying that Moscow will involve itself in dialogue with Georgia when our country is economically more dependent on Russia, I do not really think that we can be more dependent on this country than we were in 2006.

Some factors really cannot be ignored; however, our approach to them must be correct. What is now happening in the sphere of wine-making is extremely auspicious for us but it’s also the fact that Russian market can be rather risky for us too. As for our government, it must not only make statements; it must perform deeds too... The situation cannot really be defined as alarming today, but it may become alarming in the future if the Government does not adopt a strict policy.

- As you know, the National Movement plans to stage a protest event on Nov. 15 to make the International Community realize that Georgia will never yield its territories. In your opinion, what role will the Nationals’ demonstration play in the country’s internal policy?

-- Actually, the rally by the Nationals has nothing to do with the present developments in Georgia’s breakaway regions. The message the National Movement allegedly wants to deliver to the International Community was delivered long ago. Through with this action, the Nationals want to reinstate their political image and by involving other political powers they also long to ensure the people that it has not been sidelined from the political scene. Through with this protest action, they simply want to figure out how many people they still can mobilize. And all this is obviously connected to the parliamentary elections of 2016… In my mind, this rally will not have any major effect on internal political processes if the Government proves able to take measured and well thought out steps and prevent the Nationals from escalating the situation in the country.

Koba Bendeliani

InterPressNews