Reinier van Lanschot, a Dutch MEP from the Greens/European Free Alliance group, assesses the recent developments in Georgia in an exclusive interview with Interpressnews. Lanschot believes that the EU is closely monitoring the situation in Georgia, but just following the situation that is not enough and concrete steps need to be taken. According to him, the EU, like the US, should impose personal sanctions on Georgian government officials as soon as possible.

The MEP also notes that sanctions are the first step, but they should not be the last, and more actions are needed to isolate the Georgian government.

What role can the Hungarian and Slovak authorities play in these processes, how effective will the European Commission's suspension of visa-free travel for diplomatic passports be, and what will the Trump Administration change for the world - Reinier van Lanschot spoke about these and other issues in an exclusive interview with Interpressnews.

- After the October 26 parliamentary elections, the recognition of the legitimacy of the Georgian Dream government has been a widely discussed topic for several months. Some of Georgia's Western partners did not congratulate the Georgian Dream and later, Mikheil Kavelashvili on their victory in the elections, and some directly refused to recognize the Georgian Dream government. Do you consider the Georgian government to be currently in isolation? And what scenario do you expect from the leaders of European countries for the development of events? Will there be a gradual recognition of the legitimacy of the government from the perspective of individual countries?

- I think the current government is illegitimate and should therefore be isolated. Unfortunately, we see that not always in every case this is being upheld. Also, over the course of the past few weeks, we've seen government officials of some countries meeting with representatives of Georgian Dream, and we also saw attempts from the Council of Europe and the OSCE. We have tried with a lot of politicians from those different countries to put pressure on these international organizations and on the governments to not legitimize Georgian Dream. In most cases, I think it is working well. However, in some, not yet. That's why a very big group of politicians around Europe and in the US are trying to make sure that the Georgia dream government is not legitimized more.

- What role can Viktor Orban and Robert Fico, who stand out for their different position towards the Georgian government than other EU countries, play in these processes?

- The governments of Hungary and Slovakia are indeed one of the blocking forces in the European Union right now. I think it's important to highlight, that the European Union has three different institutions that are the most important ones. The first one is the European Parliament, and the European Parliament has made a very clear resolution adopted by a large majority of the parliament in which it stated that we're calling for a new free and fair elections and not to legitimize Georgian Dream. We are calling for sanctions and to support President Zourabichvili. The European Commission has done a few actions, but by far not enough, according to me. If we look at other countries that might join the European Union, then we see that the European Commission is taking more quick stances and taking more quick actions, such as in the case of Ukraine or Moldova. And I support those actions, but I think those actions should also come from the European Commission for Georgia. And then the third one, and it's the most important one, is the European Council, where the heads of states meet. They should impose sanctions, targeted financial sanctions on Ivanishvili and the rest of the Georgian Dream. However, the Slovakian and Hungarian government are blocking this.

Now, there are two opportunities of what the European Council can then do. They can either put pressure and talk with and try to convince the Hungarian and Slovakian government and still do sanctions. That, so far, is not successful. The other thing they can do is with a group of countries that is not the entirety of the EU, but still with a large group of, for example, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark, the Baltics. They can form a coalition and put targeted sanctions in place. The United States has done it so and that is what I am calling for. That is what I'm trying to ask the Dutch government to take the leading as a member of the European Parliament from the Netherlands. I am trying to push for more actions to support the people on the streets in Georgia who want democracy and who want to join the European Union.

- No one from the Georgian Dream government has attended the Davos Economic Forum, which was held on January 20-24. As it is known, they will not participate in the Munich Security Conference scheduled for February 14-16 either. They did not attend the inauguration of Donald Trump as well. What consequences will distancing themselves from such high-level events bring to the country?

- I would say that during the inauguration of Donald Trump in the United States, Salome Zourabichvili was present. She is attending the important world events, and Georgian dream is not. I think that is a clear indication why the Georgia people on the street protesting for democracy, that they have friends across the globe.

- On 14 January, during your speech to the European Parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee, you asked the European Commissioner for Enlargement, Marta Kos, what the EU intends to help Georgian democrats. In response, Marta Kos stated that she would like to put Georgia higher on the agenda. Do you think that the EU institutions are giving enough interest and attention to the events developing in Georgia?

- I think paying attention is important, but if you only pay attention, it's not enough. Because if you pay attention, you know the developments, and then you need to take actions. I think Marta Kos, who has just started as a European Commissioner, is paying attention but not taking enough actions. That's why I said in that meeting, please put Georgia higher on your priority list so that you can actually start not only paying attention, but also taking actions.

- EU Commissioner for Enlargement, Marta Cosm, announced that EU member states will vote on the European Commission's initiative to suspend visa-free travel for Georgian diplomatic passports until the end of January 2025. However, it should be noted that if the initiative is adopted, these individuals will still be able to travel to Europe with ordinary passports. Accordingly, this will be more of a symbolic decision. How effective do you consider such a decision by the European Commission?

- When it comes to the diplomatic passports and banning the easy travel for them, of course, symbols do matter, but this symbol is not strong enough because as you mentioned, they can still travel with their personal passports easily. That's why last or this week in the European Parliament, I mentioned to the Commission that this super small symbolic step in not enough. That is not enough. It's better than nothing. It's better than nothing, but it's definitely not enough. It's a tiny, tiny step, and we need big steps because Georgian people have the right to decide on their own future, and we should support their call for new elections.

- “How would you feel if the EU, after months of debate, decided that they could, just could, make it a little more difficult for officials of a repressive regime to travel by plane. European Commission, what are you waiting for? Georgia needs our support. A trip to Tbilisi, support to President Zourabichvili and implementation of real sanctions by the coalition of those willing to do so”- you stated on January 21 during the ongoing debate on Georgia in the European Parliament. What specific steps would you demand from the European institutions and what kind of regulations do you mean by “implementing real sanctions”?

- I think that pressure from the international community means to promote and support Georgian people who want to decide their own future. I think the United States has already taken some steps in that direction. The very first thing we should do is follow that lead because that would actually affect directly the people that are creating this autocracy and are bringing it to an oppressive regime. That would be the first step. There are other ways of supporting Salame Zourabichvili. Inviting her again to the European Parliament, for example, or making sure that no other European ambassadors or heads of state travel to Georgia to meet Georgia Dream. But if they travel to Georgia, they meet with leaders from the opposition. Those things can already take place. Will that be enough? I'm not so sure. This upcoming week, we will also engage in conversation in the European Parliament with people who are supporters of a free and democratic European Georgia, those friends of Georgia, to see what other steps can we take and what other sanctions can we push for. The sanctions are the first step, but definitely should not be the last. I mean personal financial sanctions, mainly.

But it could also be when it comes to visa-free travel in general. I am not in favor of banning visa-free travel entirely because that would also affect the people that are not the ones causing it. But there are possibilities of banning visa-free travel only for Georgian Dream leaders, not just a diplomatic passport, but also personally. You can make lists of all the people involved and make sure that they cannot travel to the EU easily anymore. It would be a combination of financial and, for example, targeted free travel bans.

- Donald Trump has officially become the 47th President of the United States. Along with world leaders, Georgian government leaders congratulated him on his inauguration. Georgian Prime Minister Irakli Kobakhidze: “I sincerely congratulate Donald Trump on his re-election as President of the United States. His leadership should contribute to global peace and strengthen US-Georgia relations. Parliamentary Majority Leader Mamuka Mdinaradze: “I congratulate President Donald Trump. I wish him success in his presidency. I hope that Donald Trump will achieve his ambitious goals of dismantling the power of the “Deep State” in the United States and Europe. Mikheil Kavelashvili, elected President of Georgia by the Electoral College: I congratulate Donald Trump, the 47th President of the United States, on his inauguration. I have great hope that under his leadership we will be able to take Georgia-US relations to a qualitatively new level.” The Georgian Dream Party thinks they will succeed and find common ground with the Trump administration. What do you think they are betting on, and if they will manage to find common ground with the Trump administration?

- When it comes to the administration of Donald Trump, there's one word that sums it up, and that is unpredictable. The people that tell you it will 100% happen like this, they are telling jokes because nobody knows for sure. What I see is that so far only Salome Zourabichvili was at the inauguration. And I see efforts from Republican congress members who are supporters of Donald Trump who are asking him to support the Georgian people and do not support Georgian Dream. In that sense, I do see some positive signals. The United States has already taken steps prior on sanctions towards Georgian Dream. It could very well be that Donald Trump sticks to that course, and that's what I'm hoping for. I have not seen any US politician plea for more warm relationships with Georgian Dream. Maybe that does happen, but I haven't seen it. Even though it is very unpredictable, there are some positive signs.

- One of the major promise of Donald Trump's election campaign was to end the war in Ukraine in one day. He claimed that negotiations between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Russian President Vladimir Putin would be easy. However, he recently wrote on the Truth Social platform that an agreement has not yet been reached, threatening Putin with high-level sanctions and tariffs if he does not agree to an agreement to end the war against Ukraine. Do you think we should expect significant changes in the Russia-Ukraine war, and what do you think the new US president will change for the world? What will the EU do if the US stops supporting Ukraine?

- Thanks a lot for the question. At the World Economic Forum in Davos, where Donald Trump digitally called in, mentioned that he will put pressure on Putin to get him to the negotiation table, and that the willingness from Zelenskyy is there, but not from Putin, and that he might actually, in that sense, support Ukraine and try to force Putin to come to the negotiation table. That is a slightly positive signal. Besides that, the most recent news, the most important thing for me is that we keep our support for Ukraine and increase it methodically. I think what I've always been calling for in the past three years, because the war is already ongoing for almost three years, is that we need to do way more. Because at the moment, the European Union has, together with the United States, done enough to not let Ukraine lose, but not enough to let them win. I think that is a very small-minded mindset that in the end, we will all regret. I think the EU should step up with not only defense production for a stronger army of itself, but also to live up to the promises of the ammunition that we were supposed to give to Ukraine because we were not quick enough with delivering those and are not quick enough. There can be more direct investments in the Ukrainian defense industry, and the economic support could also increase. These are just some examples. Another one is that the German government could lift the restrictions on the Taurus Rockets. This is supposed to happen after a new German government is elected. That's why it's very interesting what will happen on February 23 when the German elections are taking place. That being said, I think we should step up and support Ukraine as much as possible. If the US remains a supporter of Ukraine, then together we can really do a lot of good. But it's too uncertain, so we should not rely on the United States, and Europe should step up its game itself.

- But in Europe, especially in the Western Europe there are discussions about the fatigue. I, as Georgian, realize the importance of this war. But some people living in Paris or Amsterdam, for whom Russia is quite far, might be thinking that the war must just end with whatever result. Do you think Europe will have a common position about the ongoing war?

- I do also see here and there some fatigue for all the international turmoil, the wars that are ongoing. However, in the Netherlands, the amount of people that want to support Ukraine is still very high. We have one big political party that is in government who do not want to give additional financial means, but the other three political parties that form government with them have made sure that there will be and remain a lot of financial support as well. I think, especially in the Netherlands, because we had an incredibly tragic disaster about 10 years ago with MH17, which was an airplane with mainly Dutch citizens that was shot down and Russia has done. I think that still has a very lasting effect within Dutch citizens. Besides the fact that we think it is morally right and in our own interests to support Ukraine, there's also that national trauma that makes us more and bigger supporters of Ukraine. It could become smaller, but in the Netherlands, I think it will remain high.

- Thank you. That was my final question. If you want to address Georgian society once more, you can use this opportunity/

- Thanks for that opportunity. There are friends of Georgia who try to help as much as possible. In the end, the most important people for your future are you and are everybody that I met when I was there in Tbilisi, on the street, trying to stand up for what you believe is right. We will try to support your efforts. I definitely cannot guarantee that these targeted sanctions will come quickly, but I can guarantee that myself and other friends of Georgia will try to push for it.

Beka Beriashvili

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