Former Lithuanian Foreign Minister Gabrielius Landsbergis shares his assessment of recent developments in Georgia in an exclusive interview with Interpressnews.

According to him, it is evident that the Georgian government is attempting to "Belarusianize" the country, aiming to consolidate maximum power in the hands of a single leader.

In the interview, Landsbergis emphasizes that the West must not allow Georgia to be lost, warning that such a scenario would be "terrible."

Whether European countries have made mistakes in their approach to Georgia, Vilnius’ official stance on sanctions, and the significance of disconnecting Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania from the Russian electricity grid - Gabrielius Landsbergis discussed these and other issues in an exclusive interview with InterpressNews.

After the October 26 elections, Georgia has plunged into a deep political crisis. Most Western countries have refused to recognize the election results, while citizens and representatives from various sectors have been gathering on Rustaveli Avenue for over 70 days, demanding new elections and the release of those detained during the protests. Mr. Landsbergis, how would you assess the latest developments in Georgia?

I think that this crisis has been growing for quite a while. The core of a crisis is that Georgian people, the majority of population, want to be part of Europe. When I'm saying Europe, not just European Union, which is, of course, a symbol and probably the most practical aspect of it, but also with values and the way that people are treated, with the way that non-governmental organizations work, the way that elections are organized. And what we see is the government that sees it completely differently. For a long time, the government tried to cover their activities with that they are also pro-Europe, and they tried to fool quite a big part of a country, quite a lot of partners in the West. But now this collision was inevitable. The government needed to change and actually starting to be pro-European or when they're lying, it became apparent that this is where people started protesting. It's not yet clear how this fight will end. I just hope that there will be enough support from the West and that courage for the people to stand for what they believe.

A new decree, issued by the GD government on January 31, has added “highways of state and international importance” to the list of strategic and specially important facilities. This new status criminalizes the seizure or blockade of these roads under Article 222 of the Criminal Code of Georgia, with violators facing corrective labor or imprisonment for 2 years. The same offense carries up to four years of imprisonment if committed “jointly” or “repeatedly.” Meanwhile, police searched the houses of several activists involved in the protests. Many of the activists are still under arrest. According to you, what is the main reason for Georgian Dream’s behavior? Is it a demonstration of power?

I think it's what we're seeing this year of Stalinization of the country. Basically, removing the civil rights of the people one by one so that the country would become like Belarus or like Russia, with no rights to protest, no free election, no freedom of gathering. If it is allowed to pass and the West loses Georgia as a country that was trying to link itself to the battles of the West, that would be truly horrible. The Georgia Dream government need to be stopped. It has to be clear. Sanctions need to be implemented. It's unfortunate that we're going very, very slow with that.

You just mentioned the slow actions from the West. do you think that during this process the European countries made mistakes in the last months?

You can call it a mistake, but the thing is that Europe is in a very difficult situation, being fractured and divided, overwhelmed run by Russia's war against Ukraine. So possibly Georgian Dreams has seen this also as an opportunity, knowing that the countries are just unable, European countries are unable to keep an eye on the advanced in Tbilisi. But in this, I want to praise the bravery of Georgian people. Because if not for their conviction, if not for their conviction and the perseverance in the face of all that has been thrown at them, the repressions and the jailings and fines and searches in the homes, they still protest. In more than 70 days going out every day, and it's been cold and it's been rainy, and you probably fear arrest, and then what can be done to you is still out there. Without demonstrations most likely Europe will not know at all or even care what is happening in the place.

Like many European partners, do you also believe that holding new elections would help de-escalate the crisis? If Georgian Dream refuses to agree, do you expect some European countries to gradually restore relations with them, step by step? Or do you believe that the ruling party will remain isolated?

There are a couple of scenarios that are possible. Of course, in order to de-escalate the situation, new elections, but fair elections are needed. If you organize new elections and you still steal them, it doesn't make them better. It has to be fair so that the people of Georgia would trust them, international partners would trust them. This is what's most important. Of course, that would change this situation dramatically. If there are people who would care more about Georgia's future rather than their own business interests or their personal interests, they would think they would agree that this is the path forward. Whether that will happen, I don't know. It mostly depends on how Georgian people behave and how far are they willing to take it.

The roles of Hungary and Slovakia must also not be overlooked. In recent years, Orbán’s government has used its position and veto power as a significant obstacle to the EU’s common policy, blocking key decisions, including financial support for Ukraine. There are ongoing discussions about the possibility of removing Hungary’s veto rights, as many EU countries seek ways to overcome this challenge. Do you think such a move is realistic? Regarding Georgia, Viktor Orbán once again appears to diverge from the position of other EU countries. What role do you think he could play in this process?

I think that Viktor Orbán is always playing the same role, playing a disruptor in European Union, mostly to the interests of Russia and China. It's not a big surprise that he's supporting Georgian Dream and he was the first one to arrive to Tbilisi. There's no big surprise. When it comes to what Europe can do, there's an Article 7 in European Treaty that allows, if implemented to the full extent, it allows to remove the voting right from a member state. I'm advocating for this process to be started. I think that it's an important one, not just because of Georgia, but also because of Georgia, because Europe is unable to show any credibility in a way it could and should show credibility and offer leadership in many cases like Georgia. The discussion is really happening in European Parliament. I think that it should start also in the Council so that countries would start talking about this even more.

On January 27, the European Council decided to suspend visa-free travel for Georgian diplomats and officials, while many EU countries imposed personal sanctions on leaders of the Georgian Dream party. Do you believe these measures will be effective? What is the official stance of Vilnius on these decisions?

I am no longer the foreign minister of Lithuania, but if I were now my position would be to increase the sanctions, to broaden the coalition, to invite other countries to join in, at least in travel bans, if we're unable to agree on anything more substantive in the European Union. But I think in some case, it works as a symbolic gesture, but it's an important one because it forces others to reconsider their position. We're thinking it was probably one of the first countries to implement the travel bands together with other multi-countries. But We push the ball further. This is what I would be doing. When it comes to the thing in government currently, it's difficult to speak about their priorities. I know that the Lithuanian people definitely do support Georgia. And they want to see Georgia free and democratic in Europe.

Lithuanian sanctions, they go after an individual. They don't go after the passport. It doesn't matter which passport that individual uses. He cannot enter the Lithuania. We would probably ask, how often would Ivanishvili decide to go to Vilnius, most likely not very often. It's not a huge loss for him. We understand the symbolic nature of it. But it works as a pressure to others to do the same. It's a slow process, but it goes. Your President, Salome Zourabichvili did a tremendous job in that regard. She used her office very skillfully in informing the Western capital about what is happening in Tbilisi.

“In 2010, when the Belarusian government cracked down on protests in Minsk, there was issued an embargo on all the equipment and weapons that the government uses against its citizens. I think we really need to start thinking about the same thing: when the government is using Western equipment against its people, why are they still exporting it,” – This is your statement of last December. Do you still agree with the widely held view that events in Georgia are unfolding similarly to those in Belarus and that the country could soon fall under full Russian control?

They want to Belarusianize Georgia so that it becomes run by one person, and instead of, Lukashenko, we have Ivanishvili. But if the means are the same, so there's no big difference. When it comes to the equipment, I think that I haven't heard where the debate is ongoing, but it should be reminded constantly. I mentioned that previously, that it's the Stlinization of the country, where the civil rights are being removed. The countries, the power in the countries, localized in one person, one group, and basically it becomes an island that is, in most cases, dependent on Russia.

More than three decades after leaving the Soviet Union, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania have begun to unplug from Russia's electricity grid and join the EU's network, that was called a “historic switch.” This is a new step for Baltic countries, which joined the EU 20 years ago but used Russia's electricity until these days. What is the importance of this decision, and why did it take so long? What are the fields in which Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania are still dependent on Russia?

A couple of reasons why it took so long. First is technological. It's not an easy project. We did not have a link sufficient to keep us in the green with the West. We had to build the links to Sweden, to Poland, Estonia, to Finland. We had to connect, and it was quite costly. It's still not over. We're still building one additional link to Poland. But there was political harmonization that was needed. Not all political parties were seeing that this has to happen. Not all the countries in the region have seen that it has to happen so fast. That was probably even more difficult process to convince the population, to convince the political groups, and to convince the countries, because we have to go through the process smoothly and altogether. I'm really glad that it happened. When it comes to whether we are dependent on something else, I think that that is the last thing that was where I would be, because I was still where they're coming from.

we import the gas through LNG from anywhere in the world, and we made decisions so that no LNG comes from Russia, even though Europe still imposes it, we don't. Oil, we import it from elsewhere, Middle East, United States, Our trade with Russia is 0.6% of our total trading.

“Oppressive regimes should be careful when comparing their opponents to Lithuanians because Lithuanians have a history of winning this kind of thing,” – last month you wrote on the social network X. Your response addressed the Georgian Parliament Speaker, Shalva Papuashvili’s Facebook post, where Papuashvili claimed: “Just so we know, spitting into food and this kind of behind-the-back behaviour is a Lithuanian style and has always been considered the most disgraceful conduct.” What comment would you make about this controversy that we have seen on a social platform?

His statement tells more about him than about Lithuania. His words, the way that he uses them tells more about his personality than anything else. I think that his future will be decided in fair elections, I'm sure.

It has been nearly three years since Russia invaded Ukraine. While Russia has failed to achieve its goal of conquering the country, the war continues, with nearly 20% of Ukraine still under occupation. Do you anticipate any changes in the course of the war, peace negotiations, or Western support for Ukraine, particularly under a potential Trump administration?

Well, it's difficult to say now. We are entering, an era of unpredictability. That means that the new administration is bringing with itself, you know, quite a lot of, new ideas. Some of them might be useful to Ukraine. Some of them might not.

It is difficult to say which ones will be implemented. If president Trump decides to support Ukraine and put more sanctions on Russia and give more weapons to Ukraine and push Russia to negotiating table, who knows? There is a possibility of a deal, that would, cease fire. You know, and with security guarantees that maybe it will hold. But if you look deeper, I mean, Putin has very little incentive to sit at the table. We're still yet to see whether President Trump is really willing to put something on to make Ukraine stronger. And we don't see anybody considering an idea to offering security guarantees to Ukraine. These are the biggest problems. And, if the problems materialize, not the solutions, so it will be a continuation of the same thing that we've seen since 2008 or 2014.

Like in Georgia, there was a borderization going on. So, in Ukraine, the borderization of Ukraine is very achievable thing even with the ceasefire where Russia will continuously push front. I think that we have to be very mindful, not to be too optimistic about what's happening because the things might really go wrong still. There are many chances that it will go wrong, and we have to help Ukraine as much as we can.

That was my final question. Lithuania has been a longstanding supporter of Georgia and remains the only country that officially refers to us as Sakartvelo. I sincerely hope that the current tensions will be resolved soon. If you would like to share a message with the Georgian people, this is your opportunity.

I could just say that we will always stand with Georgian people. No matter what, no matter the government, we will always stand with Georgian people. Well, it's your country. It's your future. And, you fight for it and we'll help you retain it.

Beka Beriashvili

Brussels-based Correspondent of Interpressnews